ThunderDreamers.com Discussion Forums - Old Photos

kinajin Ex Member	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #25 - 04/23/09 at 17:22:29 I don't like saying "I told you so".
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m.monja Elder Member Posts: 2300 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #26 - 04/23/09 at 17:32:44 its all good. had to experience what had to be experienced.
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HinTamaheca Elder Member Experienced Posts: 1834 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #27 - 04/24/09 at 07:06:45 A Sundance is not sacred, unless the attitude of participants is sacred.
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kinajin Ex Member	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #28 - 04/24/09 at 07:14:27 Hau, hecetu welo.
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m.monja Elder Member Posts: 2300 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #29 - 04/24/09 at 09:46:10 exactly.
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wagnuka New Member Hello Posts: 41	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #30 - 04/24/09 at 16:15:58 Wow
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wagnuka New Member Hello Posts: 41	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #31 - 05/04/09 at 15:18:02 I think if the photographer takes a picture, he loses something very special.
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Rico Elder Member pte ole hoksila Posts: 1000 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #32 - 05/05/09 at 05:40:28 thx for the beautifull pics AND the interesting discussion
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Alextakoda

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #33 - 05/05/09 at 18:09:38

not my place to say anything about the sundance or what's right or wrong, sacred or not sacred

have studied photography a little and have a passion about it. i hope myself that history will be kind to it...as maybe it will be all thats left to show future generations some things that can't or will never be written. words may be twisted but who can deny what their eyes can see.

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« Last Edit: 05/06/09 at 11:23:53 by Alextakoda »

Ehaz ha sowenath whath tho why ha tho goz henath!

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Wanagi Wanbli Junior Member Hello Posts: 79 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #34 - 05/08/09 at 16:17:11 Thanx for sharing the pictures with us Wow, what strikes me is how similar it all is... the people and traditions i,e Kool .
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Wanagi Wanbli Junior Member Hello Posts: 79 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #35 - 05/08/09 at 16:18:15 Quote from HinTamaheca on 04/24/09 at 07:06:45: A Sundance is not sacred, unless the attitude of participants is sacred. Right on!
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Alextakoda Elder Member Posts: 1287 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #36 - 05/09/09 at 18:38:58 a prayer for the truth... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hQwdA3fQZ8
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GentleRain Full Member Hello Posts: 194 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #37 - 05/10/09 at 10:08:09 Excellent photos! Thank you for sharing. Oddly, A friend of mine found a lot of old photos being sold on ebay. That really bugs me.Geez
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Wakalapi Senior Member Mitakuyepi, Yalowan oyakihi hwo? Posts: 449 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #38 - 02/22/10 at 14:29:46 I was wondering about the last picture entitled (ed mcgaa). Is that sage wrapped around his wrist and head?
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youngbird Elder Member Hello Posts: 623 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #39 - 02/22/10 at 23:53:17 Yes, its sage. Its common to see sundancers/pledges wearing sage bracelets, anklets and crowns. Its there for a reason not just adornment.
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Wakalapi Senior Member Mitakuyepi, Yalowan oyakihi hwo? Posts: 449 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #40 - 02/24/10 at 17:24:06 Quote from youngbird on 02/22/10 at 23:53:17: Yes, its sage. Its common to see sundancers/pledges wearing sage bracelets, anklets and crowns. Its there for a reason not just adornment. "it's there for a reason" I am thinking that maybe the reason is spiritual protection?
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youngbird

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #41 - 02/26/10 at 12:53:21

Yes, thats a part of it. Its not good to touch a dancer directly, so when its time for a dancer to be conducted to a certain place they will be taken by that sage bracelet and led to where they need to be....no physical contact....unless in the case of a piercing or flesh offering, then the intercessor/wicasa wakan and an assistant will briefly touch the flesh of the dancer....

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Im just a human being trying to make it in a world rapidly forgetting what is like being human....J.Trudell

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Wakalapi

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #42 - 02/26/10 at 13:09:33

Hau youngbird,
Pilamayelo for the elaboration! So now, i am thinking that the Sun Dancer is viewed, represented as sacred as the eagle feather? Also, if "no physical contact" is in a sense the protocol. This must mean that the area(s) within the sacred cottonwood must be viewed, represented as sacred too? So if a Sun Dancer was to fall down for whatever reason, he would have to make his way up on his own?

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Wakalapi Senior Member Mitakuyepi, Yalowan oyakihi hwo? Posts: 449 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #43 - 03/16/10 at 11:30:32 In some of the photo's, from 1893, 1883, 1943 etc... the trees appear to look like they might have some weight to them. I can't imagine how heavy and/or the physical strength it must of taken to construct the lodges?
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youngbird

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #44 - 03/16/10 at 22:54:56

Quote from Wakalapi on 02/26/10 at 13:09:33:

Hau youngbird,
Pilamayelo for the elaboration! So now, i am thinking that the Sun Dancer is viewed, represented as sacred as the eagle feather? Also, if "no physical contact" is in a sense the protocol. This must mean that the area(s) within the sacred cottonwood must be viewed, represented as sacred too? So if a Sun Dancer was to fall down for whatever reason, he would have to make his way up on his own?

I can only elaborate based on our arbor....there are two circles....one inside the other....the inner circle is +or- 150' in diameter....the outter is 170' or so leaving a 10' space to be covered with pine boughs....the shade for supporters. The cottonwood is located centered in the hocoka....all that area within the 150' circle is for dancers and those who "officiate" and those who are invited in for doctoring....our trees are generally 10-12 " in diameter. Contact me privately with other questions as Im uncomfortable saying too much in public.

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Im just a human being trying to make it in a world rapidly forgetting what is like being human....J.Trudell

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Wakalapi Senior Member Mitakuyepi, Yalowan oyakihi hwo? Posts: 449 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #45 - 03/17/10 at 11:28:51 Hau youngbird, Thank you for your elaboration. OK, if i have any more question(s) regarding this topic, i will PM. I admire the respect that you present each time you post.
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Wakalapi

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #46 - 06/11/10 at 11:57:14

Hau,
Upon once again reviewing these photo, i notice a "similarity" The photo of the Shoshoni Sundancers 1910 are wearing something that resembles a sun (they are wearing it around their neck and hangs down in front of their chest).
In the photo of Oglala Lakota Sundancers 1946, theres a sundancer on the left that appears to have the same and/or similar sun.

36 year time span, is the symbol of sun still wore in 2010 Sun Dances? If yes, why?

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kinajin Ex Member	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #47 - 08/06/10 at 08:44:29 No pictures is just a recent 'cool' AIM thing. Look at all the pictures allowed back then.
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SylLee

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Re: Old Photos - Sundance
Reply #48 - 08/29/10 at 19:51:05

ok.... i have stuff to say here but i am not sure how to say it... first... as a photographer myself i know that the object of a true photographer is to capture the essence of a moment in time.. to be successful something of the soul of a subject must be present in the photograph... hence the term "soul stealing" is not totally inaccurate... however by the same token to even begin to approch photography in this way the photographer must approch the act of photoraphy with a certain reverance and every truely talanted photographer i know considers the subjects of thier work ... the moment in time... as special... sacred

also most of those photos were posed for... they had to have been because of the time needed for exposure using the technology of the time... also.... many were taken from outside the tent... i suspect without permission...

i do know that some times photographs just dont come out... no matter what you do to try and capture the subject...

i also suspect that if there is soul stealing going on it is a two way street...

i posted this somewhere once... i think it is beautiful...

someone got really mad at me.. i found it in a book... with these other photos

this is zig jackson,... from the same book...

i have tried to photograph an eagle but they never come out... i took one once and the eagle was on this old falling down pier next to a seagual the seagual came out but the eagle was blurry... after 40 years of experiance what i know is that i dont really know much... and that there are things going on that are not for me to see... and so i wont nor will anyone else ...photography however is a sort of story telling ...

and sometimes they want to be seen...

those photos of the sundances kinds bug me though...

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Alextakoda Elder Member Posts: 1287 Gender:	Re: Old Photos - Sundance Reply #49 - 08/30/10 at 07:58:17 “Grandmother, you who listen and hear all, you from whom all good things come…It is your embrace we feel when we return to you…” http://www.archives.gov/research/ansel-adams/
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